Published on August 4th, 2010 | by Eli Clifton
44Patrick Disney Describes The Day After the US Bombs Iran
Patrick Disney, the former Assistant Policy Director for the National Iranian American Council, has written a great piece responding to Ray Takeyh and Steven Simon’s Washington Post op-ed, which Tony Karon described as “a ‘how-to-bomb Iran’ manual.”
(Ali discussed the increasingly hawkish rhetoric coming out of the Council on Foreign Relations in his blog post Monday.)
Disney’s critical analysis of Takeyh and Simon’s article concludes that a bombing campaign of the type proposed by the CFR scholars would have disastrous effects.
Disney writes:
First, there is no military option short of a full-blown invasion and occupation. Even if all of Iran’s nuclear facilities can be located, and even if they can all be destroyed with surgical air strikes, the ruling hardliners will just rebuild them — only this time without the contraints of the IAEA.
Indeed, no proposed air strike would permanently destroy Iran’s alleged nuclear ambitions and would probably exacerbate already tense U.S.-Iran and Iran-Israel relations.
He continues:
Secondly, and most disappointingly, Takeyh and Simon’s analysis totally ignores the devastating impact an attack would have on the long-term prospect of democracy in Iran. Iranians last summer took to the streets in the most passionate outbreak of popular dissatisfaction since the 1979 revolution. Those who know their history viewed the events of last year as the latest step in Iran’s democratic evolution — a process that began over 100 years ago with the constitutional revolution of 1906. Although the street protests have died down and the democracy movement is in some disarray, it is clearly still a factor in Iran. Unfortunately, dropping bombs on Iran now is the surest way to uproot any hope for peaceful democratic change in the country. The hardliners will most likely use an act of foreign aggression as justification for a brutal crackdown, and the focus of political discourse will shift away from questions of internal reforms and regime legitimacy toward external threats and the need to rally the nation’s defenses.
While Takeyh and Simon may have the luxury of discussing their hypothetical best-case scenarios for bombing Iran, Disney draws a believably dismal picture of what a U.S. or Israeli military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities might bring.
An Iranian regime which has quit the IAEA, crushed its domestic opposition and turned its nuclear program into a symbol of avenging the countless deaths from an Israeli or American air strike is a frightening thought, but one which — no thanks to alarmists such as Takeyh and Simon — could become a reality.
Disney concludes:
With the anti-Iran rhetoric at a fever pitch in Washington, it’s easy to forget sometimes just how remote of a threat Iran’s nuclear program actually is. According to numerous unclassified assessments by the U.S. Intelligence Community, Iran has not yet decided to pursue a nuclear bomb, and the US and international community still has time to convince them not to. The three to five years an attack would gain now will most certainly not be worth the cost it would incur: a non-democratic Iran with an overt nuclear weapons program and a vendetta against Western powers who attacked it.
About the Author
Eli Clifton is a reporter at the American Independent News Network. He formerly wrote on U.S. national security at ThinkProgress.org and reported on U.S. foreign policy as well as trade and finance at the Washington bureau of IPS. His articles have also appeared on Right Web and in the South China Morning Post. Eli has a B.A. in Political Science from Bates College and an MSc in International Political Economy from the London School of Economics.
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To my knowledge Patrick Disney possesses no particular expertise on military matters. It’s purely speculative on his part to say that a full-blown invasion and ocupation is the “only military option.” Nor is it easy to say just what would happen in the aftermath of a successful bombing of all the nuclear sites. Would Iran rebuild them? I’d say it depends on the cost. What if we destroyed the sites and announced that we would bomb them again at the first sign of new construction? The regime would just go ahead anyway? Who can say?
Personally, I agree that a U.S. attack would set back the Iranian democracy movement. But do we know that with certainty? We don’t. The other side, which claims an attack would help the Greens, has a greater burden of proof (which they can’t meet) because their policy calls for killing people. Nevertheless, we can’t know for sure how Iran would be affected internally by an attack. I’m pretty sure it would unite the populace behind the regime, but even the experts can’t be certain.
What I’m trying to say is that just because someone writes something that we agree with, it doesn’t necessarily advance the argument. The piece’s major points amount to little more than speculation.
Before other commenters attack me just let me say that I am 100% against military action to destroy or hinder the Iranian nuclear program. I regard the program as no threat to America, even with the bad state of relations between the two countries. I believe in a U.S.-Iranian strategic partnership, and would be prepared to offer far-reaching enticements to achieve this. I have written to this effect many times here and elsewhere.
There’s no reason to think that the US High command wouldn’t be perfectly happy to crush Iran with a massive bombing campaign and then just keep rebombing on a regular basis, as they did to Iraq, only more ruthlessly.
Disney is correct. A full blown invasion is indeed the only military option – not if you want to just stop what the US knows is a NON-EXISTENT nuclear weapons program – but in fact if you want regime change, it IS necessary.
The reality is that the entire Iranian “crisis” is full-blown out of nothing. Forty countries have nuclear energy programs which are in the exact same state Iran is – signatories to the NPT but no Additional Protocol and therefore no way for the IAEA to “verify” any “non-peaceful activities”. Iran adhered to the Additional Protocol for 2 years and got nothing but its file referred to the UN Security Council in violation of NPT regulations. Iran suspended enrichment for a long time and got nothing in return but more accusations.
Just like Iraq, the US intent on first imposing sanctions, then ratcheting up the rhetoric, then going to war for the benefit of Israel and the US military-industrial complex and the oil companies.
Even in the case of a limited attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, Iran can just keep moving and hardening those facilities for years until eventually the US would need to use nuclear weapons – not just conventional or even nuclear “bunker busters” – to take them out. It’s merely delaying what would be an inevitable escalation to full scale war.
And all this for an Iranian nuclear weapons program that all 16 US intelligence agencies said stopped – if it ever existed – in 2003 and according to the latest testimony by senior intelligence analysts has not been restarted as of 2009.
It’s a tragic farce. It’s also inevitable because the US public both believes the US government spin on this issue, according to polls, and no longer has ANY control over the actions of its government, which is owned and operated by the most corrupt corporations in history.
Until the military-industrial complex is dismantled, the US will remain in permanent war forever – or until its non-military economy completely collapses.
Attack on Iran will motivate every Iranian living Inside Iran and abroad to react.
a) Attacking Americans in Iraq and Afghan
b) Oil fields in Saudi and Iraq
c) Missiles to Israel
d) Strait of Hurmuz passing ships,
e) Suicide bombers only more sophisticated including overseas.
f) For sure building nuclear bomb and strong enough to first strike when the times right.
Theocratic Iran will be more and every Iranian will say good by to democracy.
Iran is not Iraq and certainly not Afghanistan.
Thousands year of pride and history Iran will not submit and most likely USA and Israel will learn hard way.
I hope I am wrong on this.
Everyone speaks on what is better to do:to bomb or to invade.But everyone have to begin that the first or the second will be a crime of great proportion.It is a crime event to speak about war and to speculate and looking for motives to make war.Already Iran is punished by sanctions,is demonized,her leader are not heard.the proposals they did and were concreted in a treat with Brazil and Turkey are disparaged and called tricks.Never in history an aggressor (Israel and US)didn’t show a such level of hubris ,insolence,irrationality and of course perfidy playing that they are the threaten part of this unbelievable campaign of lies.
“…owned and operated by the most corrupt corporations in history.”
Among them being a corporation that few people pay *any* attention to whatsoever: Judaeo-Christianity-Islamism, Inc.; whose religious ‘authorities’ accrue probably billions of dollars each year in the teaching of theological doctrines which not only *flagrantly* contradict the Revelations received by Moses, Isaiah, Jesus and Mohammed; but are, in fact, nothing less than an *incitement* to violence between Jews, Christians and Muslims.
Bombing Iran would simply prove to the world that it is an open world war against Islam. To assume that bombing or simply invading Iran would be the way to stop them from whatever it is the US and Israel doesn’t like, and would be the “end all” is pure fantasy. There will be serious repercussions – “blowback” in the form of terrorism being the LEAST costly.
Fallout in the Caspian or on Turkey would affect a billion people from Russian fisheries to energy transit to europe. Even without nuclear weapons involved, we could just redraw the entire political map of central asia, and call it “KillUSA-istan.”
The only people “occupying” Iran would be speaking Russian and Chinese. Forget about all the “investment” in Iraq and Afghanistan and friendly dictators in Uzbek and Turkmen lands. How long would it take the entire house of Saud to get on planes and flee to the US and Canada?
All because Israel said so and were holding the US over the barrel with threats.
Don’t do it, and the US has to undertake a policy of isolationism to get from “over the barrel.” Do it, and be isolated from the rest of the world – in terms of energy, imports, and influence.
“Secondly, and most disappointingly, Takeyh and Simon’s analysis totally ignores the devastating impact an attack would have on the long-term prospect of democracy in Iran.”
Yes, but neither the US military-industrial complex, the oiligarchy nor the current israeli regime want democracy in Iran, in fact they don’t want it anywhere in the Middle East, because it would obscure their possibilities for absolute corporate control of the vast oil resources left there and for an eternal “war against terror” which is vital to their suspension of democracy at home. They don’t want democracy anywhere, they want “democracy”: they want a facade they can control. For the israeli regime, democracy in Iran would hamper their plans for ethnic cleansing of greater Israel, which on the other hand would be easier with a prolonged war going on (so they think).
Where is all the money to pay for these little boys invasions going to come from? History will repeat over and over the foolhardiness of American adventure in the middle east during the 20th and early 21st century. None of the people in the Obama admisnitration or the current military possess a high IQ or exhibit any real cognitive abilities. Obama’s IQ is around 120. IQs among those now serving in the Congress, Senate, and Executive branch, are twenty points below those of the legislative and executive branches of 30 or 40 years ago.
I have to shake my head when I hear these elites so casually discuss the merits of whether or not to bomb Iran. To drop high energy explosives down on people who have done us absolutely no harm. To burn their flesh, eviserate their guts, and smear their blood and brains over their land. We talk about this so casually and,of course, they can hear our discourse. And then we wonder why they don’t trust us enough to lay themselves bare to our will.
Iran is condemned for trying to develop a deterence to our own evil. America has gotten itself a ruling class that is ruthless and hypocritical, our ally Israel, the source of much of these destructive urges, wants to do the deed with nuclear weapons. They have become a monster nation. We are not far behind.
Jon. I have to agree with you but, and I’m sure you already know this, we get “analysis” in the face from just about everywhere and I for one feel like a deer in a constant stream of propagandist headlights. The warmongers trot out their bought and paid for “experts” who are usually ex-military and now on the payroll of some company peddling their latest death dealing devices. These double-dipping douche-bags have no “credibility” in my eyes. Why? Because their bread and butter has been the advancement of the empire before and after wearing their taxpayer financed costumes.
The jingoist spin coming out of DC about the imminently grave danger Iran presents to the world and global peace is not, and never has been about their nuclear program. That’s merely a propaganda front for the benefit of Boobus Americanus. It is, and always has been about AIPAC and ‘our really good and great friend and loyal ally(sic)’ in the Middle East, the Zionist State of Israel and the protection thereof. Just as was the devastation of Iraq and the 30,000+ US casualties who took bullets for their sake.
The US hoping that Iranian would be feared now and throw them their babies and maybe their pants and run or ask for forgiveness. Very Funny the way their little brain operates, what are they thinking if they ever do. The Zionists dont want to believe their game is up. Nobody buys this bul. You want to hit me just do it and take the consequences, don’t start your singing and dancing. Time for bullying and intimidation is over reality and truth is here.
America is full of deluded ignorant people, who rationalize their own misdeeds, while demonizing those who retaliate against their aggression. America is also ruled by a class of looters and criminals. The entire US economy is centred on waste, exploitation, mindless consumerism, and war profiteering. This is fully supported by both political parties. The US corporate media is a cesspool of lies, 365 days a year,
The question is what you are going to do after, if you destroy what ever you think you can destroy. Iran is a real tiger not a paper one.
Poor US soldiers. Imagine the torture in their head. I would say they deserve it. What do you think killed Alexander the Great?
We Iranian are ready and very happy to join and cooperate with any free and peace loving brave people in any corner of the earth regardless of their religious belief.
Patience is very valuable asset, that why Islam always emphasizes about it. Its like a (JOKER) in card playing, it could be used anywhere and anytime, so please Muslims be patient and trust the leader, Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, time is in our side, we can hold our breath, but the enemy breath is running out..
Iran is in NPT because it honest and wants to prove to the world that it is a peaceful nation, and if you look at the Treaty, suppose to help the countries signatories to the treaty, which has not fulfilled regarding Iran. The history of the treaty tells us, it was designed by the countries that had already possessed the bomb that their club closed to others. IAEA regarding Iran has been used for political reasons, a tool to put pressure on selected nations in support of the Zionists.
Iran can compete with the west by revealing the true about the western governments, what the west does is contradictory to what they say. The truth always wins, we just don’t have patience. Well done Iran, you truly understand the western mind.
The world knows that the dollar is falling and must fall sooner or later, attacking Iran only accelerate that process. Dollar is floating only by the power of military, and when that myth is discredited the whole thing will fall with a big splash, crashing like a cow pat. Mark these words.
If those Iranians who demonstrate against their government had an iota about how world politics and economy works. They have no idea about the western governments and their allies who promote their protest against the Iranian regime want to break them and then enslave them. They just submitted to their own enemy and being used as a tool to cause disorder in the nation, it’s so obvious and clear. Ignorant and weak people are everywhere.
You so called “paul” are not a full shilling. Iran does not need any Nukes, they are repeating it every day, strategically and for long term, nuclear bomb does not work for Iran or for any righteous nation.
*The world wake up before it’s too late. The whole world is being pillaged and squandered for the sake of profits. The whole humanity is been doctored and enslaved for the sake of human’s sadistic, ignorance and control. Every game comes to an end, and Capitalism is just a game of Monopoly and we all know how that game ends. All these conferences are just staged part of their hypnotizing machine. It’s a MONSTER!!!!!! People Unite or be enslaved and live in hell on earth.
*Why God give so much power to the west, and I always say, they only have power because you are weak. We are not aware of the forces that rule the masses and societies and so on. Simply we do not want to admit what human being is. The enemies of Iran is extremely experienced, they tap into hardwire senses, ie; Feeling of inferiority and ego, to drive the masses by their ignorance and control them like a herd of sheep, by the basic Mechanisms every human being is born with. It’s a sort of what you call Magic. Of course, Money and collaborators are needed.
Listen. We are not going to let your ‘Mullahs’ get their hands on a nuke.
Aint gonna happen.
You say your population is so educated and craves democracy. Then you of all people should know that your Islamic rulers, who all swear they cant wait for the imam to show up (really???) and have already stated their intentions to use that nuke for said purpose, must be stopped at all costs.
Doesn’t look like your little ‘green movement’ is doing a damn thing so get ready because I swear, if you don’t stop your insane regime, we will.
Real Americans love starting wars as much as they do building prisons.
Well I’m sure the attack on Iran will turn out as swimmingly as the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Hey, just for giggles, look up how many wars and covert ops the US has initiated in the past 30 years.
And Iran is the threat? Really?
Before we assume an American cakewalk, let us not forget that the US has yet to beat Iran in their own war games. Frontline or 60Min (I think) covered this story back in perhaps 2004 that in our own war games that the retired general that was Red (Iran/enemy) team kept devastating our forces with little guerrilla tactics. Evidently this kept happening, then those running the exercise would prohibit these non conventional attacks. The wily general simply pulled another string. After 8 runs the US failed to achieve her aims and suffered debilitating losses.
That’s just tactically. Strategically, there is no benefit to bombing Iran. We don’t simply want to destroy, no, we want to have a hand in the architecture of Iran’s governance. For that we get an Afghan redux. This too is packed with self contradictory objectives that make navigating a clear course quite perilous.
The US economy is staggering. I don’t think we have indefinite ability to borrow money. We don’t have growth, but inflation is bound to be affected by debt, ineffectiveness and profligate policies. We are asking our politicians to forgo millions of dollars personally to do what’s right.
What disturbs me about the Charlie Rangel charges is how very common they are. He is disconnected and I couldn’t defend him against being called “scum.” But, look at Kay Bailey Hutcheson, Diane Fienstien and Nancy Pelosi’s nepotistic nexus they have with their husbands, those demonstrate deep conflicts of interest, while Charlie is simply a thief.
Looks like Lobelog’s hit a nerve with its focus on Iran.
Alex nailed it. Iran will take the war to us! In Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Saudi Arabia, In Somalia, in Yemen, in Isreal and especially here in the United States.
Who has the moral high ground? We ignored all intel to attack Iraq after crippling sanctions that resulted in the malnourished deaths of hundreds of thousands of kids, according to Madelin Albright. Now we want to do the same to Iran that has never threatened us till we threatened them.
Bin Laden said it best. America will die when it runs out of money. We cannot afford to do what we are doing. NATO is getting less and less support. Soon America and Israel will strand alone. That is not a good thing, at least for Americans and Israelis
And where do you think Russia and China will be when the chips are down. It will be their chance to clear the U.S. out of the East once and for all – The Crusades Live ON.
I prefer to believe, Jason, that we will finally begin to heal after we run out of money.
Lets get the facts straight:
1) If the US and/or Israel attack Iran it is and will be a act of war.
2) Iran will retaliate using everything it has to defend itself including chemical and bio weapons. Iran will not hold back as some suggest, this is what a war is.
3)Russia WILL get involved,of this there is NO QUESTION.
4)China WILL get involved,of this there is no QUESTION.
5)Nuclear weapons will be used…..no question.
6) Anyone who thinks that attacking Iran will not lead to a larger even global war is simply “lost in a state of lunacy”. We need to stop sugar coating the facts about what war with Iran means and face the facts now before the bombing starts because if we are going to allow this to happen then we need to accept the reality of what the aftermath will look like.
Are we all ready for all out war….nuclear war.
A few points:
1. Despite the success of Western propaganda to the contrary – several polls around the world, especially those in Western countries consistently show that Iran ranks along with Israel and USA as one of the top ‘terrorist’ countries, as an aggressive nation, as a pariah, etc., attesting to the huge success of that sustained propaganda – Iran is perhaps the most peaceful countries in the world, not having attacked any other country in the last 250 years (please don’t respond with, “how about the Iran-Iraq war; Iraq attacked Iran on instigation and full cooperation of the Western countries and their clients in the Gulf who drained their treasuries to support that war on orders from their masters and thereby enriched the military-industrial complexes in the Western nations).
2. It is a signatory to the NTP; the IAEA, which monitors Iran’s uranium processing sites round the clock, has been regularly reporting that all the low grade fissile material that Iran makes is accounted for and that Iran has not violated the terms of the NPT treaty. The NIE of the US Intelligence services have stated that they have found no evidence that Iran currently has a nuclear weapons program. Iran has formally and repeatedly stated – such statement issued from the highest level of the government – that Iran was not manufacturing nuclear weapons and that it had no intention of doing so in the future.
3. Iran is a developing country with very limited and rudimentary technological/industrial resources and many other problems that developing countries are prone to. Those limited resources are under added pressure from UN sanctions that severely limit its ability to develop its economy or it’s military. Its military budget is a minuscule of the US Military budget or even that of Israel – Iran’s self-appointed enemy and rival and also, incidentally, the regional military superpower. US and Western military experts have pointed out that Iran’s military doctrine and preparation is oriented towards defense of the country, designed to slow down an advancing aggressor and sue for a negotiated peace. It is reported to have very limited, rudimentary and questionable offensive capability.
4. Given the international pressure Iran was under, Iran agreed to surrender its LEU stockpile for further processing and conversion into fuel rods in France and/or Russia for its small, aging medical/research reactor that was built by the US several decades ago. The fuel for that reactor, which produces isotopes used in radiation treatment of cancer patients – is scheduled to run out in the near future. It offered to do so if provided some guarantees. That agreement was ignored by the West. Later, in a second effort, Iran agreed to the terms put forward by Turkey and Brazil who successfully negotiated such a swap (fuel rods for LEU stockpile – on US instigation and encouragement (Brazil said that it has an official letter from the US President praising the efforts that were being made by Brazil and encouraging it to go ahead). However, to Brazil’s and Turkey’s surprise and disappointment (and that of Iran and many other countries) the West rejected that effort also. Some commentators have stated that the US encouraged the Brazil/Turkey initiative with the belief that it would not succeed but the US could get some free ‘brownie points’ in its propaganda effort to portray Iran as an obstructionist nation bent upon clandestinely acquiring nuclear weapons and would also provide US and/or Israel one more pretext/argument for launching an aggressive war on Iran. But to their chagrin the effort succeeded and Iran agreed to the Turkey/Brazil proposal. Therefore they rejected it in anger.
I agree with Wire Tap. This is not about stopping some fictional “bomb” factory. That is only for the fairy tail stories the nightly news puts out on a regular basis to make the asleep feel better about killing innocent people. Iran, and other countries in the area are victims of new American Colonization …..
The US will never attack Iran simply because USA is affraid of Iranians and looking at US war history you will understand what iam saying cause US never won any war. USA PROPAGANDA is finished this time.
Sam apparently received a blow on the head recently.
Jake, let’s get the facts straight. Iran has no biological warfare capability and a rudimentary chemical one. It wouldn’t use either in any case because then we’d truly bomb them back to the Stone Age.
Russia and China might “get involved” to the extent of providing covert aid to Iran, but that’s all. Nor will nuclear weapons be used (should war break out) — except possibly the “bunker-buster” variety.
An attak on Iran will probably lead to blowback lasting years if not decades. But World War III? That’s ludicrous.
Reap what you sow, America.
Dempsey is engaged in the same sort of fantasization process that neocons have been engaged in since 1991. Recall the promises of cakewalk, flowery greetings and those oil revenues paying to rearm America? Chances are though, he’s more correct than they turned out to be.
An attack on Iran will at the absolute minimum turn the straits of Hormuz into a chokepoint for US and European oil. Even sending the Marines into hold enough of a beach head to ensure that the Iranians can’t lob missiles or fire artillery at transiting oilers would result in a major war scenario.
It would be a real fantasy to think that the Iranians would be any less ‘welcoming’ than they were to Saddam’s forces when they ‘took on the mullahs’, with America’s support, back in the 80′s.
Combined with the bleeding ulcer in Afghanistan, the unfinished business in Iraq and Israel’s constant need to upset the neighborhood, another entanglement in Iran could only encourage the minor players, who can always be depended on to create a crisis, to take advantage of the ‘world cop’s’ troubles.
Fantasy could extend to getting the UN onside for another serial of the GWOT, and getting another coalition willing to engage in it.
@ Jon Harrison,”Personally, I agree that a U.S. attack would set back the Iranian democracy movement”
What democracy you’re talking about you idiot, Take your god damn Amerikkkan DEMOCRACY & shove it where the sun don’t shine!
Perhaps, if one was to look at the reason as to why Iran wants a nuclear device?
Is it for aggressive purposes? or is it for self defense?
The aggressive argument hardly holds any merit, for what killing spree has this country gone on outside its own borders? Or for that matter what other country does Iran occupy?
The same cannot be said for Israel, USA, UK, and their western allies, who just love killing, occupying and forcing their ideals on others.
Therefore, it must be for defense:
Perhaps Russia and China should get off their collective asses, and offer Iran the same protection as the USA offers Israel. Or possibly supply Iran with a nuclear deterrent, just like the USA did for Israel.
Better still, disarm and dismantle Israel, and bring peace to the Middle East.
I wish I could accomodate you, Falesteeni, but I’m squeamish. And hopelessly addicted to girls. So get your voyeuristic kicks somewhere else, laddie boy.
The debate on this post seems to be declining in quality. Why would the Russians or Chinese offer the Iranians a nuclear umbrella, or nuclear weapons? It wouldn’t be in their interest. Similarly, while I favor the creation of a democratic Palestine in which Jews, Arabs, and others can live as equal citizens, I can’t imagine how Israel can be disarmed or dismantled, just like that. Perhaps the 5:54 p.m. commenter had just left behind several empty glasses at an after-work watering hole?
I realize that all the Third-Worlders out there (including those Westerners who consider themselves of the oppressed, at least in spirit) get off at the prospect of Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz. But that’s just your, ah . . . dream. Ain’t gonna happen. Until the money runs out the U.S. miltary can keep the Strait open, no matter how hard the Revolutionary Guard (maritime version) flexes its revolutionary muscles at us.
President Truman forced Russian (Soviet red)army to leave northern Iran in ’46 – and the Russians want it back – so, the day after? Russians invade the north.
Oh yeah – Truman threatened to use the gadget on the red army if they didn’t leave…
So, the business goes… bang!
I agree with P.Disney view and Alrx Karas comment. The outcome of such attack is like Earthquake with 8 M ( 8 Richter )
Mac made the “13th Imam” comment. I really want some verification of this. It is, of course the height of hypocrisy for Christians or Jews to accuse Muslims of being religious fantasists. It’s the Christian Church that is awaiting the return of Jesus.
I think that perhaps the next Israel might be much closer to the one of prophecy–maybe after all the religious nuts on all sides kill each other. It will be sad that innocents will suffer, but the Judeo Christian God doesn’t seem too concerned with killing innocents.
It is the height of hypocrisy and projection that Neo-cons, in cahoots with John Hagee.
Jon, as to keeping the Straits of Hormuz open, while Iran could shut them down for a while with their fleet of small speed boats, even Bin Laden has pointed out, (similarly to Castro) that of course they’d sell the US oil, that’s what they do. Bin Laden knows that he can swat our hand and we’ll send up a committee, lobbyist will advocate war, security measures and the result will bankrupt us. He knows he can drive us out of the Middle East, but we will NEVER compromised on oil, (till oil is no longer indispensable.)
I totally agree relative to Russia and China. They are all too happy to let us over-reach. They won’t veto or stop us, they will let us wear out our welcome, we Americans are exquisite at that.
Meant to finish the Hagee sentence, but I guess you know where I was going.
As to the last point, when it comes to wearing out our welcome, we Americans are exquisite, but we Texans are like the “Chosen (to wear out our welcome) People.”
The irony about the whack jobs promoting a strike on Iran is this: they are mostly pro-2nd amendment. These people demand the right to bear personal arms, however when it comes to states bearing arms, their hypocrisy knows no bounds. The people justifying an attack on Iran have the same mentality as a mugger or a rapist who wants defenseless victims.
Everyone knows the reason North Korea has been left alone is because they CAN hit back in kind. The pro-Iran bombers don’t want that situation in the Middle East. Heaven forbid that brown-skinned nations get the ability to fight back against the crusading legions! You can’t exactly pillage and plunder a nuclear armed nation, can you?
As far as Ken Mac is concerned, go enlist if you feel so strongly about that:
http://www.goarmy.com
Nothing makes me sicker than a keyboard commando trying to pose like a big man. You don’t speak for all of the US – just for a minority of mentally deranged politicians and financiers – so please STFU before using the word ‘we’ when it comes to your lunatic policy positions…
im afraid the hawks have become brazen on some successes attacking
weakling “states” – well get to the many failures later – and have no clue
what attacking a country with a real military that has many allies with even larger ones will bring.
and bring to their very doorsteps.
tsk.
truly delusional.
Could the real issue be, should Iran bomb Empire USA? Because it the answer is yes, then we must ask why it is that the majority of the world thinks Iran should bomb Empire USA?
Gutless wonder that we be, this is the first time our Empire has created a state of war with a world-class military. Reflect on what Hezbollah did to our client state Israel, and grasp the reality that such a humility could happen to us.
I was for nearly 20 years a US NRC nuclear inspector (concentrating on non-proliferation and terrorist attacks, security,etc…), and for 2.5 years an International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards inspector, responsible for Chernobyl and the plants in Kazakhstan.
Having stated my background, it’s my opinion that Iran has no nuclear weapons program, they don’t have one now, and at any rate, any country with 100 pounds of highly enriched uranium or plutonium AND with access to the unclassified internet in theory has a weapons program. It’s not rocket science folks, just slam 2 chunks of HEU together like the Hiroshima bomb. You probably don’t even need high explosives to accomplish a nuclear explosion…
But the main thing is, why does the US consider Iran its enemy after all the numerous overtures by Iran to re-establish diplomatic and cordial relations?
Non-proliferation really has no military solution, and if someone wants to point at Israel’s bombing of Iraq’s nuclear research site for an example of success…well the Iraqi site Israel bombed was unsuitable to produce fissile materials, and the Israeli attack only encouraged the Iraqis to develop a clandestine nuclear program.
Show Iran who’s boss….period.
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