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	<title>Comments on: NYTimes Floats the Case for Attacking Iran</title>
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		<title>By: ilona@israel</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/nytimes-floats-the-case-for-attacking-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-98698</link>
		<dc:creator>ilona@israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=326#comment-98698</guid>
		<description>actually i payed attention that russia is fine about million deaths -the population there is about 150 millions so million more million less-they dont care. i can adjust one case that happened during second world war. russian army got the oder to cros the river. they had no bouts, the flow was fast and danger, most of solders did not know to sweam. but oder is oder-noone can break it so commander of this part of army contacted his boss just when five solders left. what about now-russians sells weapons and bombs to arabs and they they get terracts in different parts of country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually i payed attention that russia is fine about million deaths -the population there is about 150 millions so million more million less-they dont care. i can adjust one case that happened during second world war. russian army got the oder to cros the river. they had no bouts, the flow was fast and danger, most of solders did not know to sweam. but oder is oder-noone can break it so commander of this part of army contacted his boss just when five solders left. what about now-russians sells weapons and bombs to arabs and they they get terracts in different parts of country.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/nytimes-floats-the-case-for-attacking-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-98451</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=326#comment-98451</guid>
		<description>Re your update: &quot;increasingly bizarre&quot; indeed. Perhaps Kuperman sees the supposed Iranian nuclear threat to Israel as a game-changer? Offhand I can think of nothing else. Any chance someone in your organization could persuade him to go on the record with an explanation of his change of view?

An historical note: a preemptive strike on the U.S.S.R. in the later forties would not have precipitated WWIII, as Kuperman avers. Soviet power would have been wiped out, pure and simple, and the Russian hold over Eastern Europe would have collapsed as completely as happened forty years later. A similar result was possible as late as the early 1960s -- on this see the fascinating article by Galbraith, &quot;Did the U.S. Miltary Plan a First Strike in 1963?&quot; (I think I have the title right), published a few years ago in the Boston Review.

I am not saying that a preemptive strike would have been justified. Morally, how could one justify killing millions of Russians (&quot;collateral damage&quot; as we now say) in a preemptive attack? General Marshal, when the idea of a preemptive war was voiced in his presence, asked how one could justify the destruction of the Hermitage and its priceless art treasures. And he was right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re your update: &#8220;increasingly bizarre&#8221; indeed. Perhaps Kuperman sees the supposed Iranian nuclear threat to Israel as a game-changer? Offhand I can think of nothing else. Any chance someone in your organization could persuade him to go on the record with an explanation of his change of view?</p>
<p>An historical note: a preemptive strike on the U.S.S.R. in the later forties would not have precipitated WWIII, as Kuperman avers. Soviet power would have been wiped out, pure and simple, and the Russian hold over Eastern Europe would have collapsed as completely as happened forty years later. A similar result was possible as late as the early 1960s &#8212; on this see the fascinating article by Galbraith, &#8220;Did the U.S. Miltary Plan a First Strike in 1963?&#8221; (I think I have the title right), published a few years ago in the Boston Review.</p>
<p>I am not saying that a preemptive strike would have been justified. Morally, how could one justify killing millions of Russians (&#8220;collateral damage&#8221; as we now say) in a preemptive attack? General Marshal, when the idea of a preemptive war was voiced in his presence, asked how one could justify the destruction of the Hermitage and its priceless art treasures. And he was right.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/nytimes-floats-the-case-for-attacking-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-98435</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 23:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=326#comment-98435</guid>
		<description>The article dh cites is an interesting summary, but doesn&#039;t really tell us anything new. Will Iran withdraw from the NPT? If it does, I believe that will be the green light for an Israeli attack on the nuclear facilities.

One would like to have some real inside information on the internal conflict in Iran, both people vs. regime and within the regime itself. I wonder how clear the situation is to people in the U.S. government; if anyone does know, they seem to be keeping it under wraps.

I&#039;m sure it was a coincidence and not timed to coincide with the Kuperman op ed in the Times, but did everyone see Jimmy Carter&#039;s reversal of opinion on Palestine? He now repudiates and apologizes for his equating of Israeli policy toward the Palestinians with apartheid. The man&#039;s view couldn&#039;t have been more clear; he even wrote a book on the subject, for which he was savagely criticized in pro-Israeli circles (the Israeli ambassador called Carter an anti-semite). And why did Jimmy boy pull a 180? Why, his son or grandson is running for a state senate seat in Georgia, and the district in question has a high percentage of Jewish voters. What a hypocrite! A return to his true self -- the gutless wonder -- that we suffered through when he was president. I can&#039;t find a strong enough word for this; craven is too mild.

These developments may signal a trend . . . . The game seems to be turning the neocons&#039; way. Unless something big supervenes -- the collapse of the theocracy in Iran, for example (not holding my breath on that), I see the possibility of bombs (Israeli, not American) on Iran looming large. This will probably set off all sorts of fires currently lying dormant in the region and around the world. An Israeli-Palestinian settlement will recede even further from the realm of possibility, setting up a grim reaping for the next generation of Israelis, and perhaps even for Diaspora Jews as well. Are Obama-Gates-Mullen capable of staving off the worst? I doubt it.
I believe we are now completely at the mercy of events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article dh cites is an interesting summary, but doesn&#8217;t really tell us anything new. Will Iran withdraw from the NPT? If it does, I believe that will be the green light for an Israeli attack on the nuclear facilities.</p>
<p>One would like to have some real inside information on the internal conflict in Iran, both people vs. regime and within the regime itself. I wonder how clear the situation is to people in the U.S. government; if anyone does know, they seem to be keeping it under wraps.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure it was a coincidence and not timed to coincide with the Kuperman op ed in the Times, but did everyone see Jimmy Carter&#8217;s reversal of opinion on Palestine? He now repudiates and apologizes for his equating of Israeli policy toward the Palestinians with apartheid. The man&#8217;s view couldn&#8217;t have been more clear; he even wrote a book on the subject, for which he was savagely criticized in pro-Israeli circles (the Israeli ambassador called Carter an anti-semite). And why did Jimmy boy pull a 180? Why, his son or grandson is running for a state senate seat in Georgia, and the district in question has a high percentage of Jewish voters. What a hypocrite! A return to his true self &#8212; the gutless wonder &#8212; that we suffered through when he was president. I can&#8217;t find a strong enough word for this; craven is too mild.</p>
<p>These developments may signal a trend . . . . The game seems to be turning the neocons&#8217; way. Unless something big supervenes &#8212; the collapse of the theocracy in Iran, for example (not holding my breath on that), I see the possibility of bombs (Israeli, not American) on Iran looming large. This will probably set off all sorts of fires currently lying dormant in the region and around the world. An Israeli-Palestinian settlement will recede even further from the realm of possibility, setting up a grim reaping for the next generation of Israelis, and perhaps even for Diaspora Jews as well. Are Obama-Gates-Mullen capable of staving off the worst? I doubt it.<br />
I believe we are now completely at the mercy of events.</p>
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		<title>By: dh</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/nytimes-floats-the-case-for-attacking-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-98399</link>
		<dc:creator>dh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=326#comment-98399</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know...but it sure sounds like a drumbeat...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/25/world/middleeast/25iran.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8230;but it sure sounds like a drumbeat&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/25/world/middleeast/25iran.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/25/world/middleeast/25iran.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/nytimes-floats-the-case-for-attacking-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-98357</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=326#comment-98357</guid>
		<description>I was hoping you would weigh in on this. Indeed, this is why I peeked at the site on Christmas Day.

Like you, I was shocked by the piece. How indeed does something like this happen, or perhaps we should ask: &quot;Why?&quot; The length of the piece, the author (who as you say has no real credentials on Iran) and the imprimatur of the Times, added together make it profoundly disturbing. Is the Times trying to have it both ways? Is it shifting to a hawkish stand? (Pretty bad timing if the latter, given that the regime in Iran has never been so unpopular with the mass of the people.) I was both shaken and outraged to read the thing.

Does anyone have an opinion on whether the Times is doing a good cop/bad cop thing at the behest of someone in government? The piece really came out of left field for me. Does anyone have a theory on what&#039;s behind it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was hoping you would weigh in on this. Indeed, this is why I peeked at the site on Christmas Day.</p>
<p>Like you, I was shocked by the piece. How indeed does something like this happen, or perhaps we should ask: &#8220;Why?&#8221; The length of the piece, the author (who as you say has no real credentials on Iran) and the imprimatur of the Times, added together make it profoundly disturbing. Is the Times trying to have it both ways? Is it shifting to a hawkish stand? (Pretty bad timing if the latter, given that the regime in Iran has never been so unpopular with the mass of the people.) I was both shaken and outraged to read the thing.</p>
<p>Does anyone have an opinion on whether the Times is doing a good cop/bad cop thing at the behest of someone in government? The piece really came out of left field for me. Does anyone have a theory on what&#8217;s behind it?</p>
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