First of all, some background. I came to this site through http://www.antiwar.com, which I read daily because of the pathetic state of US media. They had a link to this site, which I knew nothing about. I posted some comments because I thought it was possible to have a dialogue with people here, but my impression is that this is a site for people who have already made up their minds, and anyone who wishes to discuss these views is ganged up on. But allow me to respond to individual comments.

My first point was that in the fog of war, it’s hard to know what is truth and what is propaganda. There are many accounts in this conflict that latter turn out to be distortions or outright falsehoods designed to sway world opinion. This is why I try to read as many different sources as possible, so I can make up my own mind.

First of all, I saw nothing in the information provided that said the journalist was traveling under diplomatic immunity, as Robin claims; it says he was traveling with a Dutch diplomat, and that the Netherlands filed a “protest” about the treatment of a journalist. Her analogy about open season on American journalists is not logical, because the government in Iraq was put in power by the US invasion. Her statement would make more sense if she said the Iraqi insurgents would be justified attacking American journalists. I wouldn’t support this action but I stand by my point – which is that a country has a fundamental right to protect itself, whether you agree or not. I’m sure whatever country you live in supports this fundamental principle.

Again, telling me that his friends tell you that he is in pain is not a convincing argument. This may or may not be true, and, any injuries he may have, may or may not have been caused by Israelis. I don’t dispute that this is possible – I am not a rabid Israel supporter – only that it is not evidence, and that in a war, injuries can be manufacturered or blame can be shifted.

As for “Renfro”, his logic is pathetic. He states that “I think I will have the Jewish members of my country club expelled and blackballed throughout my city on the grounds they could be spies for Israel, like the Israeli spies we have had before, and are dangerous to my country.” First of all, we are not at war with Israel; in fact, we share a lot of military, industrial, medical, and scientific information with them. Maybe in his mind we are at war with “the Jews”; but then he must think we are at war with the Catholics, as well, after the huge damage done by CIA Aldrich Ames – much more than caused by Pollard, if that is the “Israeli” spy he was referring to.

But I suppose “Renfro” is free to discriminate against people at his country club based on religion if he chooses; many clubs do this already. I wonder how many blacks, American Indians, Asians, gays, Muslims and other minorities are allowed in his country club. Sounds like a great guy – I noticed no one challenged his statement of overt bigotry – in fact, he receives praise from Carol White for his expression of discriminating against Americans because of their faith. Only my comments resulted in expressions of opposition. Yes, this site is truly a beacon of justice!

Angie tells me what I am thinking – a pretty remarkable acheivement – reading my mind from a distance. I never said I approved of harsh treatment; I object to it; but I don’t want to be manipulated by war propaganda. I don’t want to be a “useful idiot” for either side. I want the facts, and then I will make up my own opinion.

I know that many of the inflammatory stories that have come out of the Intifada later turn out to be fake. If you truly want the truth – and are not doing what you accuse me of doing (ignoring facts to support a preconceived opinion), then you should look into this. This does not mean I can’t accept that a foreign country – Israel – is capable of using its authority inappropriately. It just means that I don’t reflexively assume that a country’s enemies are incapable of telling lies.

I also disagree with Nissar Ahmed A. Naik’s analogy about “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” and the Palestinians. The Palestinians are not slaves, and it is offensive to African Americans to say their plight is analogous. I don’t think that Muslims living in Israel can be bought and sold or flogged at will. Also, African Americans were not at war with the white population, did not practice terror bombings of buses, weddings, and pizza parlors, and did not preach killing men, women, and children in their media and schools. I sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians, but I don’t see how they have the moral high ground, just a poor strategic capapcity. After all, they supported Hitler in WWII, Russia in the Cold War, Sadam Hussein in the Gulf War…but don’t tell this to Renfro, since he knows who the REAL enemy is!

Then there is ED!, who can also read minds. Rather than engage me in a discussion, he dismisses my comments because I’m a Dispensationalist Christian. I’ll have to look that up but sounds like someone who believes the Bible. Actually, I am a Diest, like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. But a person’s belief system should not be the basis for assessing the validity of their views. Or so I believe – you appear to think otherwise, or you wouldn’t have made your comment. Obviously, people on this site know they are right, aren’t concerned about facts, and are sure that anyone who disagrees with their beliefs is a religious crackpot. Sorry, my views are not colored by any religious texts, as you claim, because I do not follow any religious texts. I certainly don’t believe in Biblical prophecy, if that is why you are suggesting, and my comments were not to free Israel of any blame, only to suggest a balanced view of two people locked in a viscous war that has lasted countless centuries.

Vaughn Treude says that torture and terrorism are never justified. I can at least respect this comment as ethically consistent, and not a personal attack. I must admit that I find torture repugnant; but would I oppose torturing Bin Laden if I thought it would save hundreds of thousands of the lives? Or, if it would save my own family? I honestly don’t know; I think it is a valid issue to discuss, for a civil debate.

Joe Dokes, a simple American in search of truth.

We are borrowing $2 billion a day for our current gov’t. We have a defense budget that exceeds $700 Billion a year including Nuke activities in the Dept. of Energy and other off list military expenditures. Gee, the math would suggest that we’d have to cut the entire military budget to balance our daily borrowing.

We have baby boomers getting old, and I don’t know if you looked recently, but a million bucks ain’t the nest egg it one was. In fact, the average 401k for people over 50 is under 100K. These assets sure have been hit by a depreciating dollar, a shaky and falling stock market, and their homes aren’t likely worth what they were.

So, very soon something will happen. If Europe raises interest rates, it could further tank the dollar. Perhaps they’d bail us out, in exchange for domestic political reforms. Will China and Saudi Arabia continue buying our debt? Will we have to raise interest rates to attract their largess? Will that further contract our economy?

Will the defense industry pack up their bags and go home? Will they scare us into thinking they are indespensible? They kill for a living, so conspiracy theories aren’t irrational.

The saddest part of all of this is that the Mainstream Media is not talking seriously or honestly about our debt, and economic instability. The politicians certainly aren’t broaching these issues. We are totally at the mercy of those who’ve betrayed us for so long to correct their mistakes.

I know that on the eve of our implosion this will not be covered on the news. Those who have access to our venerable leaders dare not talk irreverently, earnestly nor honestly as I do. They resent people like me who find phony decorum far more disturbing than the truth. This American empire IS BANKRUPT. When will the collectors come due? Perhaps if we are well enough armed no one will fuss with us.

Does anyone else accept the notion that we are essentially holed-up in the Middle East, our Jewish neighbors have colluded with us against the Arab neighbors. We have a lot of guns, good media exposure, but the Sheriff is due to come calling sooner or later.