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	<title>Comments on: From Clarion: A Protocols of the Elders of Islam?</title>
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		<title>By: Lee Kaplan</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-34213</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Kaplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-34213</guid>
		<description>Why is my comment awaiting moderation? So it can be censored?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is my comment awaiting moderation? So it can be censored?</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Kaplan</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-34212</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Kaplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-34212</guid>
		<description>The film Obsession begins in the first ten minutes showing the number of terrorist attacks and murders committed by Islamic fundamentalist groups like al Qaida and Hamas since 1979. It is quite shocking--and all true. Meanwhile, instead of Muslim groups like CAIR (a Hamas front) condemning such attacks without qualifications, we have the continual whine of picking on Muslims.  Whine away all you like. Until Islamic leaders virutlently oppose terrorist groups instead of making excuses for them, instead of blaming Israel for everything and the Jews, and instead of fronting for Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the America public will not be fooled by false claims of victimhood. The new Holy Land trial shows the financial jihad of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood so trying to hide these facts only makes CAIR show its true colors. CAIR has praised Hassan al Banna, a founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and avowed Nazi ally. Finally, those of you in California, please come hear Walid Shoebat speak at UC Berkeley on Wed, October 29th for a truer perspective on all these discussions. Nobody in America has committed pogroms on Muslims, and Obsession in no way is like the Protocols of Zion. In fact members of CAIR have said they were true in the past. Shoebat will speak at Wheeler Hall on the UC Berkeley campus at 7:15 pm. Admission is free and all are welcome. For more info go to www.shoebat.com or www.3xterrorists.com or www.berkeleygop.com. Advance reserved seats available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The film Obsession begins in the first ten minutes showing the number of terrorist attacks and murders committed by Islamic fundamentalist groups like al Qaida and Hamas since 1979. It is quite shocking&#8211;and all true. Meanwhile, instead of Muslim groups like CAIR (a Hamas front) condemning such attacks without qualifications, we have the continual whine of picking on Muslims.  Whine away all you like. Until Islamic leaders virutlently oppose terrorist groups instead of making excuses for them, instead of blaming Israel for everything and the Jews, and instead of fronting for Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the America public will not be fooled by false claims of victimhood. The new Holy Land trial shows the financial jihad of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood so trying to hide these facts only makes CAIR show its true colors. CAIR has praised Hassan al Banna, a founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and avowed Nazi ally. Finally, those of you in California, please come hear Walid Shoebat speak at UC Berkeley on Wed, October 29th for a truer perspective on all these discussions. Nobody in America has committed pogroms on Muslims, and Obsession in no way is like the Protocols of Zion. In fact members of CAIR have said they were true in the past. Shoebat will speak at Wheeler Hall on the UC Berkeley campus at 7:15 pm. Admission is free and all are welcome. For more info go to <a href="http://www.shoebat.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.shoebat.com</a> or <a href="http://www.3xterrorists.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.3xterrorists.com</a> or <a href="http://www.berkeleygop.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.berkeleygop.com</a>. Advance reserved seats available.</p>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33783</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33783</guid>
		<description>look the confusion about this article has more to do with translation than anything.  I am not an expert in Arabic, but I do know and am familiar with the language of Quran/Muslims.   

Quite simply, the global gov&#039;t alluded to is more than likely, &quot;ummah.&quot;  Ummah, mean the community of Muslims.  I am a member of this community by marriage.  One way we access this community is by offering to buy an animal for someone who can&#039;t afford it in some remote stricken land for the Eid feast that comes two months after Eid al-Fitr.  Another is that we shop at Halal stores.  

Halal meat is often cheaper than conventional stores--ironically they charge more for liver than tenderloin.  It is leaner, younger and better treated and slaughtered with some compassion.  

The term Ummah is quite familiar with all Muslims.  It simply means the Muslim community.  Here we speak of the Dallas Ummah, the American Ummah, the Global Ummah.  We do hope and work for a world where any Muslim may pray, and work without conflict.  

I am not sure if I consider myself a Muslim or not.  I find the question absurd actually, but to completely believe in the Golden Rule.  As an ascriber to this principle, I hope anyone may be free to practice their faith freely, so long as they don&#039;t seek to impose on me.  If building small sinks on the floor in airports and other large public facilities really rankles you then I don&#039;t know what to say.  I don&#039;t find that too onerous.  

And don&#039;t be threatened by people who simply want to be allowed to practice their faith without being bothered or bothering others.  Remember the words of Voltaire, &quot;I may not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>look the confusion about this article has more to do with translation than anything.  I am not an expert in Arabic, but I do know and am familiar with the language of Quran/Muslims.   </p>
<p>Quite simply, the global gov&#8217;t alluded to is more than likely, &#8220;ummah.&#8221;  Ummah, mean the community of Muslims.  I am a member of this community by marriage.  One way we access this community is by offering to buy an animal for someone who can&#8217;t afford it in some remote stricken land for the Eid feast that comes two months after Eid al-Fitr.  Another is that we shop at Halal stores.  </p>
<p>Halal meat is often cheaper than conventional stores&#8211;ironically they charge more for liver than tenderloin.  It is leaner, younger and better treated and slaughtered with some compassion.  </p>
<p>The term Ummah is quite familiar with all Muslims.  It simply means the Muslim community.  Here we speak of the Dallas Ummah, the American Ummah, the Global Ummah.  We do hope and work for a world where any Muslim may pray, and work without conflict.  </p>
<p>I am not sure if I consider myself a Muslim or not.  I find the question absurd actually, but to completely believe in the Golden Rule.  As an ascriber to this principle, I hope anyone may be free to practice their faith freely, so long as they don&#8217;t seek to impose on me.  If building small sinks on the floor in airports and other large public facilities really rankles you then I don&#8217;t know what to say.  I don&#8217;t find that too onerous.  </p>
<p>And don&#8217;t be threatened by people who simply want to be allowed to practice their faith without being bothered or bothering others.  Remember the words of Voltaire, &#8220;I may not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: CosmoReaxer</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33568</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmoReaxer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33568</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know anything about these documents, and I don&#039;t want to defend them, but it is possible that these documents do not have much attention paid to them, in the same way that most fringe ideas do not have much attention paid. Unfortunately, the fringe here is willing to act in a dangerous manner.

To build on my original point from Obsession, the majority of Muslims do not seek to convert or kill non-believers, and in fact they are frightened of the radicals, as well. That&#039;s a big reason why you might not hear about things like this. Especially in Muslim countries, or in Muslim satellite cities in Europe, there is pressure not to call attention to the problem. We must take that into account as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know anything about these documents, and I don&#8217;t want to defend them, but it is possible that these documents do not have much attention paid to them, in the same way that most fringe ideas do not have much attention paid. Unfortunately, the fringe here is willing to act in a dangerous manner.</p>
<p>To build on my original point from Obsession, the majority of Muslims do not seek to convert or kill non-believers, and in fact they are frightened of the radicals, as well. That&#8217;s a big reason why you might not hear about things like this. Especially in Muslim countries, or in Muslim satellite cities in Europe, there is pressure not to call attention to the problem. We must take that into account as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. D. Andrew Kille</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33511</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. D. Andrew Kille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 02:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33511</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a remarkable circularity to the reasoning about the &quot;reality&quot; of the document. All of the sites that are referred to as authorities on its authenticity are pushing the same hysterical &quot;anti-Jihadi&quot; tack. As Rev. Daniel points out, the fact that the document exists, or even that it has been entered into evidence in a legal hearing, has nothing to do with its authenticity as a guide for anyone&#039;s actual behavior. 

It&#039;s time for people to stop circulating these distortions and to work on building strong connections between ALL the diverse religious groups and communities that make our nation strong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a remarkable circularity to the reasoning about the &#8220;reality&#8221; of the document. All of the sites that are referred to as authorities on its authenticity are pushing the same hysterical &#8220;anti-Jihadi&#8221; tack. As Rev. Daniel points out, the fact that the document exists, or even that it has been entered into evidence in a legal hearing, has nothing to do with its authenticity as a guide for anyone&#8217;s actual behavior. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s time for people to stop circulating these distortions and to work on building strong connections between ALL the diverse religious groups and communities that make our nation strong.</p>
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		<title>By: Rowan Berkeley</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33492</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowan Berkeley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33492</guid>
		<description>Look, the CIA spent decades breeding and grooming people who would &#039;rear their heads&#039; (as Sarah Palin puts it) and breathe threats full of fire and brimstone against &#039;America and the West&#039; on demand. They are our Goldsteins, to borrow Orwell&#039;s famous hate figure. This ought to be utterly obvious, even to the tired-sounding keyboard warriors who earn their probably rather low pay by visiting blogs like this and parroting the Pentagon line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, the CIA spent decades breeding and grooming people who would &#8216;rear their heads&#8217; (as Sarah Palin puts it) and breathe threats full of fire and brimstone against &#8216;America and the West&#8217; on demand. They are our Goldsteins, to borrow Orwell&#8217;s famous hate figure. This ought to be utterly obvious, even to the tired-sounding keyboard warriors who earn their probably rather low pay by visiting blogs like this and parroting the Pentagon line.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33482</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33482</guid>
		<description>Dear Get a Clue,

I read the article linked in your response above.  The problem is that even if you can prove that the documents are authentic, there seems to be no real solid evidence that anyone in the Muslim community is paying any attention to them. 

I see a dangerous logic unfolding in that article linked by you: 1. some documents calling for &quot;stealth jihad&quot; show up. 2.By &quot;stealth jihad&quot; we mean Muslims working within the legal limits of a democratic society, attempting to promote Islam as a peaceable, reasonable, mainstream religion. 3. Therefore 3. Anyone who does anything to make Islam look good is part of an attempt to overthrow Western Civilization. 

This is bogus logic. This is what happens when fear replaces reason. 

Regards,

Rev. Ben Daniel
San Jose, CA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Get a Clue,</p>
<p>I read the article linked in your response above.  The problem is that even if you can prove that the documents are authentic, there seems to be no real solid evidence that anyone in the Muslim community is paying any attention to them. </p>
<p>I see a dangerous logic unfolding in that article linked by you: 1. some documents calling for &#8220;stealth jihad&#8221; show up. 2.By &#8220;stealth jihad&#8221; we mean Muslims working within the legal limits of a democratic society, attempting to promote Islam as a peaceable, reasonable, mainstream religion. 3. Therefore 3. Anyone who does anything to make Islam look good is part of an attempt to overthrow Western Civilization. </p>
<p>This is bogus logic. This is what happens when fear replaces reason. </p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Rev. Ben Daniel<br />
San Jose, CA</p>
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		<title>By: Get a clue</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33466</link>
		<dc:creator>Get a clue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33466</guid>
		<description>Lobelog, I&#039;m quite impressed you never deleted by comment - well done to you.

It seems most of your readers won&#039;t bother reading any of this, but, unlike your fake Protocols, this Islamist protocol is real:
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3184

It looks like they&#039;ve posted some new videos about thirdjihad over at their site - perhaps y&#039;all should take a look, without blinkers this time.

G.A.C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lobelog, I&#8217;m quite impressed you never deleted by comment &#8211; well done to you.</p>
<p>It seems most of your readers won&#8217;t bother reading any of this, but, unlike your fake Protocols, this Islamist protocol is real:<br />
<a href="http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3184" rel="nofollow">http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3184</a></p>
<p>It looks like they&#8217;ve posted some new videos about thirdjihad over at their site &#8211; perhaps y&#8217;all should take a look, without blinkers this time.</p>
<p>G.A.C.</p>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33464</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33464</guid>
		<description>I want to warn you that Muslims believe in the merits of their own faith.  And, while they don&#039;t believe in prostelytizing directly, but by example they do seek to grow their ranks.  Muslims may well believe in taking over this country once they have more than 50% of the population converted.  This would be a democratic process.

Now, our enemies, Russia, China, the terrorist in the cafe might also like to see us collapse either from within or without.  Guess where we are most vulnerable?  Only Congress and a few bankers have the power to destroy this country.  How are they doing?  

They are throwing this country to the wolves.  Watch out too for the lazy and stupid in the media; they have so mislead us favoring proximity to power over the power of critical thought and analysis.  

Watch out for the patriots, and those who control the major institutions of this country.  Ask yourself, do they possess the commitment and independence to effectively run this country?  We got so many other things to worry about than a bunch of Muslims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to warn you that Muslims believe in the merits of their own faith.  And, while they don&#8217;t believe in prostelytizing directly, but by example they do seek to grow their ranks.  Muslims may well believe in taking over this country once they have more than 50% of the population converted.  This would be a democratic process.</p>
<p>Now, our enemies, Russia, China, the terrorist in the cafe might also like to see us collapse either from within or without.  Guess where we are most vulnerable?  Only Congress and a few bankers have the power to destroy this country.  How are they doing?  </p>
<p>They are throwing this country to the wolves.  Watch out too for the lazy and stupid in the media; they have so mislead us favoring proximity to power over the power of critical thought and analysis.  </p>
<p>Watch out for the patriots, and those who control the major institutions of this country.  Ask yourself, do they possess the commitment and independence to effectively run this country?  We got so many other things to worry about than a bunch of Muslims.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmoReaxer</title>
		<link>http://www.lobelog.com/from-clarion-a-protocols-of-the-elders-of-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-33436</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmoReaxer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=193#comment-33436</guid>
		<description>For anyone who is willing to denounce the movie without seeing it, I am sorry you have been cowed by the heavy spin put on this movie. Not only is it not &quot;anti-Muslim&quot; &quot;hate propaganda&quot; the movie even features moderate Muslims and is quite clear it&#039;s only a minority of Muslims who are radical. I have been trying to raise awareness of the movie since the summer, so I find it very frustrating that the film is being misconstrued.

And I have not seen Third Jihad, but to compare it to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a stretch, no? Protocols was a hoax document, and contained outrageous lies about Jews (some of which are noted in Obsession). Third Jihad I guess we don&#039;t know yet, but instead of blood libel I bet people will be upset because it raises uncomfortable concerns and calls attention to statements by people we would rather ignore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone who is willing to denounce the movie without seeing it, I am sorry you have been cowed by the heavy spin put on this movie. Not only is it not &#8220;anti-Muslim&#8221; &#8220;hate propaganda&#8221; the movie even features moderate Muslims and is quite clear it&#8217;s only a minority of Muslims who are radical. I have been trying to raise awareness of the movie since the summer, so I find it very frustrating that the film is being misconstrued.</p>
<p>And I have not seen Third Jihad, but to compare it to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a stretch, no? Protocols was a hoax document, and contained outrageous lies about Jews (some of which are noted in Obsession). Third Jihad I guess we don&#8217;t know yet, but instead of blood libel I bet people will be upset because it raises uncomfortable concerns and calls attention to statements by people we would rather ignore.</p>
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